Talking With Tech AAC Podcast

Jordyn Zimmerman: Overcoming Limiting Beliefs in the Education System

This week, Chris and Rachel interview Jordyn Zimmerman, an autistic nonspeaking adult who was featured in the documentary “This is Not About Me.” This is Not About Me covers Jordyn’s journey trying to be included in school and to get access to robust AAC. Jordyn shares about the challenges with an education system that can segregate disabled students without giving them equal opportunities, the problems with “gatekeepers” withholding robust AAC from students, the impact of limiting beliefs, and more!
 
Before the interview, Chris and Rachel connect with Michaela Ball, the Audio Engineer of Talking with Tech. Michaela shares about how she got connected with the podcast and why she reached out to help several years ago. Chris, Rachel, and Michaela discuss some of their thoughts about Jordan Zimmerman’s documentary, This is Not About Me https://thisisnotaboutme.film/ and talk about the importance of giving AAC users the time they need to finish communicating.  Chris and Rachel challenge listeners to wait for Jordyn to respond in this episode rather than fast forwarding as a way to practice giving an AAC user the wait time they need.
 
Key Ideas this Week:
 
🔑 Jordyn shares that, in the education system, when students have disabilities, they are put on a path of segregation rather than being given the tools they need to communicate. This is especially true if the student does not use speech to communicate. Once segregated, the opportunities for students within the school and broader community are often limited. 
 
🔑 There remains a big issue with with schools and professionals “gatekeeping,” i.e., requiring that a person meet certain criteria before being given robust AAC. Often, this includes a requirement that a person shows “communicative intent” before they are given robust AAC. Jordyn notes that, as a student, she was asked to demonstrate communicative intent without being given meaningful access to AAC or training on how to use it.  For Jordyn, her school believed she would never meaningfully communicate because she had “challenging” behaviors after years without access to communication.
 
🔑 Jordyn says that she learned a lot of language as a child from listening to her older brother, her parents, and Sesame Street, as well as living in a print-rich environment.  Jordyn was learning about language from her home environment long before she had access to robust AAC.
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
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Rebecca Gettings: A Parent’s Journey Supporting AAC, Language, & Literacy

This week, Rachel and Chris interview Rebecca Gettings, a parent of an AAC user in Arizona. Her son, Carter, has complex communication needs and uses eye tracking. Rachel shares about her journey from learning about AAC to supporting Carter’s literacy, as well as some of her AAC and inclusion advocacy in Yuma, Arizona.
 
Before the interview, Chris and Rachel discuss some ways that Rachel has used AI in her practice, including using the Canva AI image creator to create visuals and characters for an original story. Rachel also shares about a client family that has negative feelings about AI, and her realization that she may need to have more conversations with families before using AI in therapy. Chris notes that AI is not “binary” - its not all bad or all good.
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 When Rachel is using Chat GPT in therapy and gets an answer that is difficult for her client to understand, Rachel will model writing “Can you simplify that” into to help them get an easier to understand response.
 
🔑 Turnover has been a big problem for Rebecca and Carter - she frequently teaches Carter’s teachers and SLPs to be good communication partners, only for them to be replaced. When an AAC user’s family learns how to use AAC and become good communication partners, it establishes a consistent source of knowledge and expertise that won’t change as often.
 
🔑 Rebecca says that the main advice she would give to parents is to “get started learning as soon as possible,” even if it seems overwhelming at first. “Once you understand AAC,” she says, “its super easy, but it’s about making that jump.”
 
🔑 If you are training parents, don’t worry about training them on things they can search on YouTube, like how to add or remove a button. Focus on getting them comfortable with modeling and identifying activities in their daily routine that are starting points for implementation.
 
 
Link from this week’s episode:
 
SSA’s Spotlight on ABLE Tax Free Savings Accounts for Disabled Individuals: https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/spotlights/spot-able.html 
 
Inspire HI Project - https://www.facebook.com/InspireHIproject/ 
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!

Sydney Elcan Birchfield: Assistive Technology Q&A with Chris Bugaj

This week, we share Chris’s interview with Sydney Elcan Birchfield, an OT Assistant working in the schools and a graduate student in Assistive Technology at George Mason University! Sydney interviews Chris about his career and approach to assistive technology, including what Chris’s focus on inclusive design, including more AT in the IEP, the need for AT considerations vs AT assessments, free AT professional learning resources, and more! 
 
Before the interview, Rachel and Chris discuss one of Rachel’s clients who, prior to working with Rachel, was not making much progress using his AAC device. Rachel shares that, when an AAC user comes to her who hasn’t made progress, their system is often not set up for success - too few buttons, scrolling home page, etc. Rachel recommended a new AAC layout for her client with more language, but everyone in this client’s family was worried about moving to the new layout. They started with progressive vocabulary masking some words, and after 7 months, he is using the full layout successfully!
 
Key Ideas This Week:
 
🔑 Considerations are better than “assessment” because the time it takes to do an assessment can become a barrier - a team approach can be faster and more thorough.
 
🔑 The word “trialing” can be misleading when it comes to AT/AAC, because it sounds like a scientific trial. However, scientific trials control for all the variables before measuring change, but we can’t control for a large number of variables when exposing a student to different AT/AAC options. Even the choice of which option to put in front of a student first can change the user’s responsiveness to each option.
 
🔑 Inviting students into the considerations/assessment process helps us know what is motivating for them and if there are any roadblocks to AT (e.g. the student thinks using word prediction makes them look different) that can be discussed ahead of time.
 
🔑 We should remove the word “assistive” from assistive technology and just say “inclusive technology” or even just “technology”. It should be something that isn’t just for people with disabilities and special education, but technology can be used to redesign the experience for every student. 
 
Resources From This Episode:
 
QIAT Listserv - https://qiat.org/qiat-list/
 
#ATchat Wedesdays at 8pm Eastern on Twitter - To follow the discussion, search “#ATchat” on Twitter, and to participate, include #ATchat in your tweet.

Coaching Call with Sarah Seiger: AAC at a Nonpublic/Nonprofit School

This week, we share Chris’s coaching call with Sarah Seiger! Sarah is an SLP at a nonpublic/nonprofit school in Cleveland, OH that supports students with complex needs from multiple local school districts. Sarah is trying to develop more processes for her school’s efforts to get more students AAC, including questions about trialing, collaboration with teachers, modeling, and more!
 
Before the interview, Rachel and Chris have a lively chat about Rachel’s social media following, and why Rachel’s analytics indicate that posts  supporting literacy for AAC users often do not get as much engagement as posts that don’t talk about literacy. Chris notes that literacy may be something that not every SLP thinks of as “their job”, and maybe Rachel should consider combining literacy with other concepts to bring more people in.
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 During AAC selection, we want to consider motor planning for every student we are assessing. There is no AAC user, regardless of their familiarity with AAC, that is going to perform better with the same word in different locations all across the device. 
 
🔑 Selecting an AAC device for a student that matches what their peers are using in the same classroom/school is not something that should be avoided as a general rule - it’s OK to consider the environment that a device will be used in.  That shouldn’t be the only consideration, but it can be an important one. 
 
🔑 While it may feel respectful to put different AAC devices in front of a potential user to finding out what they “gravitate” toward when we are “trialing” AAC systems. However, it is difficult to know why an AAC user appears more interested in one app than the others - it may be the first one they saw, might have a picture that caught their eye, might be impacted by how tired the student is, etc. Instead, we can figure out what system we believe will work, based on the available factors, and choose that to start implementing right away.
 
🔑 If you are trying to advocate for a position related to AAC within your organization, consider highlighting something measurable, like modeling, and advocating for an AAC coaching role to make those improvements. You can also look at descriptive teaching and least-to-most prompting for other measurables. 
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!
 

Small Talks VII: Darla Ashton, Hank Poore, Sean Sweeney, Shelley Anderson, & Tami Altschuler

This week, we share another episode of Small Talks, where we share small interviews with previous guests. This week, we share Small Talks with Darla Ashton, Hank Poore, Sean Sweeney, Shelley Anderson, and Tami Altschuler!
 
Before the interviews, Chris and Rachel talk about the CRAAP test. This test provides a list of questions to ask yourself when deciding whether or not a source is reliable and credible enough. CRAAP stands for Currency, Relevance, Authority, Accuracy, and Purpose.
 
Small Talks this week:
 
First, Darla Ashton shares about creating visual schedules with resources like Lesson Pix and the Choiceworks App (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/choiceworks/id486210964). Chris notes that we can also consider “amorphous” visual schedules, a type of schedule where the pieces are dynamic and move around as necessary if there need to be changes to he schedule. These can help kids who are learning to be more flexible thinkers.
 
Second, Hank Poore and Chris discuss the pros and cons of turning off the feature where a word is played aloud when each button is touched. Chris talks about that Bruce Baker advising him to have the word read after each time a button is pressed; this can help keep communication partners engaged by giving them a auditory prompt to keep waiting for the message, but it likely comes down to personal preference.
 
Third, Sean Sweeney talks about JamBoard and a recent experience he had adapting a role playing game for play in et students to help participate in a shared space, more than google slides. Found a free RPG called Movie Night. Having the students design characters and use JamBoard for everyone’s character. Also uses slides on JamBoard to explain the game in a way that is easier to understand. Kind of like a virtual white board. Julia Dweck has links to a bunch of jam boards at https://linktr.ee/GiftedTawk
 
Fourth, Shelley Anderson shares her strategy of working with a student’s preferred toy/instrument to elicit more language production. Shelley takes a gathering drum and a wooden frog that makes a croaking sound  and teaches language and prepositions to a student who loves the frog (e.g. “The frog is under the drum”).
 
Finally, Tami Altschuler wishes that there could be more care and communication between school-based and hospital-based SLPs before surgeries occur. If an AAC user is going to stay in the hospital, Tami would love for SLPs to contact her for better transferring care between the hospital and the school setting. 
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!

Samantha Hagness & Becky Woolley (Part 2) - Strategies for Improving Communication Partner Coaching

This week, we present Part 2 of Chris interview with Samantha Hagness and Becky Woolley, two AT/AAC Specialists from the Mesa Public Schools, as they continue to explore integrating Grid for Education into classrooms along with TouchChat. In this episode, Chris inquires more about Samantha and Becky’s plans for modeling on TouchChat while Grid for Education is being used, as well as ideas for integrating video into communication partner coaching, benefits of prerecording trainings, and more! 
 
Before the interview, Rachel and Chris have another in-person chat about a client of Rachel’s that was making limited progress with his accuracy on his AAC device, even though the client used sign language. When an AAC user is making limited progress with accuracy despite using symbolic language, Rachel always considers the possibility that cortical visual impairment is impacting accuracy. Rachel notes that the client was recently diagnosed with CVI which she hopes will help the team utilize more CVI strategies. Chris wonders if we can make those high contrast symbols the default, and if that would potentially help AAC users with undiagnosed CVI have more success.
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 The core boards that Samatha and Becky created for their district have a picture of TouchChat 60 on the front (with a couple of navigation buttons swapped out), an alphabet with numbers and academic vocabulary on the back, and a flippable personal fringe section!
 
🔑 One thing Chris found helpful when videotaping communication partners during modeling was having them count the total AAC models, then comparing that with the number of verbal instructions given. Giving communicatione partners evidence of their growing skills provides communication partners with a feeling of confidence.
 
🔑 One big benefit of creating asynchronous training materials (e.g. recorded videos) is you can have your paraprofessionals go over the training more easily. It is often difficult to get all paraprofessionals on a campus into a single training; giving paraprofessionals access to video training allows them to watch when it is a good time for their schedule.
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!

Samantha Hagness & Becky Woolley (Part 1) - Modeling AAC in the Classroom Using Grid 3

This week, Chris interviews Samantha Hagness and Becky Woolley, two AT/AAC Specialists from the Mesa Public Schools. They chat about some of their successes and setbacks with using TouchChat as their Tier 1 approach under the Specific Language System First approach and some ideas they had to integrate Grid 3 into their classrooms along with TouchChat.
 
Before the interview, Chris and Rachel chat - in person again - about some recent webinars they did with school districts to help them improve their AAC implementation. They discuss some of the highlights, including helping staff change their mindset about how much they know about AAC and some of the second-guessing that people do when they are being coached - there may be some level of worry that they will be judged harshly by the coach or other staff. Rachel and Chris encourage coaches to reassure communication partners that they have the knowledge and skills they need to be successful!
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 Samantha and Becky believe that implementation is falling apart when teachers need to go to an extra step to add to what the teacher is doing, rather than having AAC already incorporated into a teacher’s instructional flow. 
 
🔑 With Grid 3/Grid for Education, you can display Internet information on the main screen 2/3 of the screen while having core words surround the main screen everyone is looking at. Samantha and Becky want to give teachers the ability to project this int he classroom to make AAC modeling easier and more streamlined.
 
🔑 Chris likes coming up with new ways to model AAC in classrooms, but he suggests doing a pilot with a few schools rather than rolling it out to everyone right away. This allows time to build “champions” who can tell or show others about some of the successes in the classroom.
 
🔑 Chris wants to make sure that the motor plan that is on the AAC user’s device is supported - if the teacher can’t always model on the AAC user’s specific device during instruction, that is OK, but you might consider having paraprofessionals simultaneously modeling on that AAC user’s device within the classroom environment.
 
Links from this Week’s Episode:
 
Up Goer Six - free web tool where you an type in a sentence, it provides the sentence in color codes based on the frequency of the word. https://splasho.com/upgoer6/ 
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!
 

Alyssa Hillary Zisk and Lily Konyn: Gestalt Language Processing and AAC

This week, we present Rachel’s interview with Alyssa Hillary Zisk and Lily Konyn, two autistic part-time AAC users who are members of the AAC Research Team at AssistiveWare. Alyssa and Lily discuss Gestalt Language Processing, including research into using immediate and delayed echolalia for communicative purposes and why research suggests someone being a “gestalt language processor” may be more of a spectrum and less binary. They also share about things that make modeling less effective, including talking while modeling, doing “+1 modeling”, and doing “key word” modeling. 
 
Before the interview, Chris does a banter with Rachel - in a car, in person! They talk about a co-worker of Chris who recently did a successful AAC awareness training for a Kindergarten class! Chris shares some of the positive feedback, and encourages educators to try and emulate the idea in their own school!
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 Programming in phrases that we think might be helpful is not “adding a gestalt” to the device, it’s just adding a useful phrase. Gestalts have an established emotional connection to the person who is learning language; a phrase doesn’t become a gestalt just because a therapist or parent thinks it would be useful.
 
🔑 Alyssa says that there is not a lot of research specifically referencing Gestalt Language Processing, but there is relevant research about delayed and immediate echolalia being used for communication purposes. Alyssa also mentions first hand accounts from autistic people who first used echolalia to communicate, as well as “remixed echolalia”, i.e., taking a script and moving or changing a part of it, which is very is similar to the idea of “mitigated gestalts” in gestalt language processing.
 
🔑 Alyssa and Lily are not supporters of “+1 modeling”, where the communication partner models one word longer than the AAC user uses. Alyssa and Lily think this may cause an AAC user to become stuck only using one button because they only see two word utterances modeled. We model full sentences to children, not just sentences one word longer than they are saying.
 
🔑 Similarly, Alyssa and Lily suggest that communication partners should refrain from saying words as they they are inputting them into the AAC device - it can create competing auditory channels, which is difficult for anyone with auditory processing challenges.
 
🔑 Alyssa and Lily are also not supporters of “key word modeling”, where the communication partner models one or two key words as they are talking. One word is faster to model than the entire sentence, but when the AAC user tries to communicate themselves, they are going to find out it is a lot more difficult than pressing one or two words. Alyssa and Lily believe this could cause the AAC user to stop trusting their communication partner or decide that they are inherently bad at AAC.
 
Links from this week's episode:
 
AAC for Speaking Autistic Adults by Alyssa Hillary Zisk: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/AUT.2018.0007
 
How to Talk about AAC Users (According to Them) by Alyssa Hillary Zisk and Lily Konyn: https://www.assistiveware.com/blog/how-to-talk-about-aac
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!
 

Darla Ashton: What Have We Learned About AAC in the Last 10 Years?

This week, we share Chris’s interview with Darla Ashton, an Assistive technology Coordinator, Instructional Specialist, and BCBA with Carmel Clay Schools in Indiana! Darla and Chris discuss topics in AAC related to the question, “What do you know now that you didn’t know 10 years ago?” Darla discusses her district’s journey to determine what AAC program to use, Darla’s move away from the “expert model” of AAC assessment, creating an AAC professional learning group in her district, how more BCBAs should collaborate with the team to support AAC, and more!
 
Before the interview, Chris, Melissa, and Tucker Bugaj gather to discuss AAC use on the popular Star Wars series, “The Mandalorian”. They discuss how characters tried to say “Baby Yoda” wasn’t ready for AAC, and how Baby Yoda (aka Grogu) protested, pressing “no, no, no, no” and refusing to give up his AAC.
 
Key Ideas this Week:
 
🔑 One important shift over the last 10 years for Darla is shifting to giving the teacher a tool to teach language without putting pressure on the student to use the device - an AAC user doesn’t have to “prove” anything for us to provide them AAC. 
 
🔑 Darla believes the most important thing for an AAC user’s success isn’t necessarily the app we choose, but the confidence level of the people who are going to be communicating with the student (e.g. staff, teachers, parents, SLPs).
 
🔑 In Darla’s district, some classes will have several AAC users who all use the same AAC app. Darla will frequently provide the same AAC app to a new AAC user joining that class. However, there are some circumstances where Darla will not provide the same AAC app to a student, such as when a sibling has a different AAC system at home and the parents would like to model using that app.
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!

Nanny Aut: Autistic Blogger, Advocate, and Teacher

This week, we share an amazing interview with Nanny Aut! Nanny Aut is an amazing autistic blogger and advocate who created Autistic Village, a group of blogs with contributions from autistic people around the world. Nanny Aut shares about their experience being diagnosed with autism as an adult, being told autistic people “can’t be teachers” (as they were training to be a teacher), how we can better support neurodiverse students in the schools, and so much more!
 
Before the interview, Sarah Gregory and Ashley Larisey join Rachel for a lively discussion of the meaning of phrases commonly used in education like “life skills” and “functional skills”. They note that, if a teacher says a student needs more “functional” skills/academics/language, is that just another way of saying they are giving up on academics? If not, what are they saying then? They discuss how terms like “functional” are often too vague, and ways we can be more specific when we share those ideas.
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 When we say “life skills” or “functional skills”, are we really thinking about what skills we want for a person, or are we thinking about what is important to a person? We should always do our best to connect our goals for a person with their personal interests and desires. If something is not intrinsically motivating, a person is often less likely to learn the skill and/or generalize it.
 
🔑 Nanny Aut uses the Emergency Chat app when they get overwhelmed and verbal speech becomes difficult or impossible. They share about a time in the hospital when they needed their phone to communicate, and how frustrated it make them feel when their phone was taken away as punishment.
 
🔑 When your autistic child says “no” verbally or nonverbally, they are probably telling you “no” for a reason. They may not understand exactly why they feel a certain way, but that doesn’t mean their feelings are invalid.  Telling an autistic child “just ignore it”, “it’s not that bad”, or “no one else is having a problem,” can be frustrating and, in some cases, even traumatic.
 
Links this week:
 
Inside-Aut.com, Nanny Aut’s space for parents to learn about autism, including their 6 week SPEED for Needs course.
 
Autistic-Village.com  a group of blogs by autistic people from around the world
 
Nanny Aut's free online seminar : 5 Keys to Understanding Autism
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!