Talking With Tech AAC Podcast

Samantha Hagness & Becky Woolley (Part 1) - Modeling AAC in the Classroom Using Grid 3

This week, Chris interviews Samantha Hagness and Becky Woolley, two AT/AAC Specialists from the Mesa Public Schools. They chat about some of their successes and setbacks with using TouchChat as their Tier 1 approach under the Specific Language System First approach and some ideas they had to integrate Grid 3 into their classrooms along with TouchChat.
 
Before the interview, Chris and Rachel chat - in person again - about some recent webinars they did with school districts to help them improve their AAC implementation. They discuss some of the highlights, including helping staff change their mindset about how much they know about AAC and some of the second-guessing that people do when they are being coached - there may be some level of worry that they will be judged harshly by the coach or other staff. Rachel and Chris encourage coaches to reassure communication partners that they have the knowledge and skills they need to be successful!
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 Samantha and Becky believe that implementation is falling apart when teachers need to go to an extra step to add to what the teacher is doing, rather than having AAC already incorporated into a teacher’s instructional flow. 
 
🔑 With Grid 3/Grid for Education, you can display Internet information on the main screen 2/3 of the screen while having core words surround the main screen everyone is looking at. Samantha and Becky want to give teachers the ability to project this int he classroom to make AAC modeling easier and more streamlined.
 
🔑 Chris likes coming up with new ways to model AAC in classrooms, but he suggests doing a pilot with a few schools rather than rolling it out to everyone right away. This allows time to build “champions” who can tell or show others about some of the successes in the classroom.
 
🔑 Chris wants to make sure that the motor plan that is on the AAC user’s device is supported - if the teacher can’t always model on the AAC user’s specific device during instruction, that is OK, but you might consider having paraprofessionals simultaneously modeling on that AAC user’s device within the classroom environment.
 
Links from this Week’s Episode:
 
Up Goer Six - free web tool where you an type in a sentence, it provides the sentence in color codes based on the frequency of the word. https://splasho.com/upgoer6/ 
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
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Alyssa Hillary Zisk and Lily Konyn: Gestalt Language Processing and AAC

This week, we present Rachel’s interview with Alyssa Hillary Zisk and Lily Konyn, two autistic part-time AAC users who are members of the AAC Research Team at AssistiveWare. Alyssa and Lily discuss Gestalt Language Processing, including research into using immediate and delayed echolalia for communicative purposes and why research suggests someone being a “gestalt language processor” may be more of a spectrum and less binary. They also share about things that make modeling less effective, including talking while modeling, doing “+1 modeling”, and doing “key word” modeling. 
 
Before the interview, Chris does a banter with Rachel - in a car, in person! They talk about a co-worker of Chris who recently did a successful AAC awareness training for a Kindergarten class! Chris shares some of the positive feedback, and encourages educators to try and emulate the idea in their own school!
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 Programming in phrases that we think might be helpful is not “adding a gestalt” to the device, it’s just adding a useful phrase. Gestalts have an established emotional connection to the person who is learning language; a phrase doesn’t become a gestalt just because a therapist or parent thinks it would be useful.
 
🔑 Alyssa says that there is not a lot of research specifically referencing Gestalt Language Processing, but there is relevant research about delayed and immediate echolalia being used for communication purposes. Alyssa also mentions first hand accounts from autistic people who first used echolalia to communicate, as well as “remixed echolalia”, i.e., taking a script and moving or changing a part of it, which is very is similar to the idea of “mitigated gestalts” in gestalt language processing.
 
🔑 Alyssa and Lily are not supporters of “+1 modeling”, where the communication partner models one word longer than the AAC user uses. Alyssa and Lily think this may cause an AAC user to become stuck only using one button because they only see two word utterances modeled. We model full sentences to children, not just sentences one word longer than they are saying.
 
🔑 Similarly, Alyssa and Lily suggest that communication partners should refrain from saying words as they they are inputting them into the AAC device - it can create competing auditory channels, which is difficult for anyone with auditory processing challenges.
 
🔑 Alyssa and Lily are also not supporters of “key word modeling”, where the communication partner models one or two key words as they are talking. One word is faster to model than the entire sentence, but when the AAC user tries to communicate themselves, they are going to find out it is a lot more difficult than pressing one or two words. Alyssa and Lily believe this could cause the AAC user to stop trusting their communication partner or decide that they are inherently bad at AAC.
 
Links from this week's episode:
 
AAC for Speaking Autistic Adults by Alyssa Hillary Zisk: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/AUT.2018.0007
 
How to Talk about AAC Users (According to Them) by Alyssa Hillary Zisk and Lily Konyn: https://www.assistiveware.com/blog/how-to-talk-about-aac
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!
 

Darla Ashton: What Have We Learned About AAC in the Last 10 Years?

This week, we share Chris’s interview with Darla Ashton, an Assistive technology Coordinator, Instructional Specialist, and BCBA with Carmel Clay Schools in Indiana! Darla and Chris discuss topics in AAC related to the question, “What do you know now that you didn’t know 10 years ago?” Darla discusses her district’s journey to determine what AAC program to use, Darla’s move away from the “expert model” of AAC assessment, creating an AAC professional learning group in her district, how more BCBAs should collaborate with the team to support AAC, and more!
 
Before the interview, Chris, Melissa, and Tucker Bugaj gather to discuss AAC use on the popular Star Wars series, “The Mandalorian”. They discuss how characters tried to say “Baby Yoda” wasn’t ready for AAC, and how Baby Yoda (aka Grogu) protested, pressing “no, no, no, no” and refusing to give up his AAC.
 
Key Ideas this Week:
 
🔑 One important shift over the last 10 years for Darla is shifting to giving the teacher a tool to teach language without putting pressure on the student to use the device - an AAC user doesn’t have to “prove” anything for us to provide them AAC. 
 
🔑 Darla believes the most important thing for an AAC user’s success isn’t necessarily the app we choose, but the confidence level of the people who are going to be communicating with the student (e.g. staff, teachers, parents, SLPs).
 
🔑 In Darla’s district, some classes will have several AAC users who all use the same AAC app. Darla will frequently provide the same AAC app to a new AAC user joining that class. However, there are some circumstances where Darla will not provide the same AAC app to a student, such as when a sibling has a different AAC system at home and the parents would like to model using that app.
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
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Nanny Aut: Autistic Blogger, Advocate, and Teacher

This week, we share an amazing interview with Nanny Aut! Nanny Aut is an amazing autistic blogger and advocate who created Autistic Village, a group of blogs with contributions from autistic people around the world. Nanny Aut shares about their experience being diagnosed with autism as an adult, being told autistic people “can’t be teachers” (as they were training to be a teacher), how we can better support neurodiverse students in the schools, and so much more!
 
Before the interview, Sarah Gregory and Ashley Larisey join Rachel for a lively discussion of the meaning of phrases commonly used in education like “life skills” and “functional skills”. They note that, if a teacher says a student needs more “functional” skills/academics/language, is that just another way of saying they are giving up on academics? If not, what are they saying then? They discuss how terms like “functional” are often too vague, and ways we can be more specific when we share those ideas.
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 When we say “life skills” or “functional skills”, are we really thinking about what skills we want for a person, or are we thinking about what is important to a person? We should always do our best to connect our goals for a person with their personal interests and desires. If something is not intrinsically motivating, a person is often less likely to learn the skill and/or generalize it.
 
🔑 Nanny Aut uses the Emergency Chat app when they get overwhelmed and verbal speech becomes difficult or impossible. They share about a time in the hospital when they needed their phone to communicate, and how frustrated it make them feel when their phone was taken away as punishment.
 
🔑 When your autistic child says “no” verbally or nonverbally, they are probably telling you “no” for a reason. They may not understand exactly why they feel a certain way, but that doesn’t mean their feelings are invalid.  Telling an autistic child “just ignore it”, “it’s not that bad”, or “no one else is having a problem,” can be frustrating and, in some cases, even traumatic.
 
Links this week:
 
Inside-Aut.com, Nanny Aut’s space for parents to learn about autism, including their 6 week SPEED for Needs course.
 
Autistic-Village.com  a group of blogs by autistic people from around the world
 
Nanny Aut's free online seminar : 5 Keys to Understanding Autism
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!

LJ Seiff: 14-Year-Old AAC User

This week, Chris and Rachel get the opportunity to interview the amazing LJ Seiff! LJ is a 14 year old boy with cerebral palsy and cortical visual impairment, which impact his ability to speak intelligibly. LJ shares about his AAC journey and some of the things that he wishes were done in the classroom more, like giving him more wait time to respond or asking multiple choice questions, since an AAC user can respond with a single press of “a” “b” or “c”.
 
Before the interview, Chris, Tucker, and Melissa Bugaj have a family discussion of Tucker’s recent playing in the pep band for the Special Olympics at a local school. Tucker chats about what interested him in being a part of the pep band, and shares a sweet story of helping a boy join into a group picture by giving him a chance to use a sousaphone.
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑One of LJ’s biggest frustrations in the classroom is when teachers don’t think about incorporating or using his device in the classroom setting. He also gets frustrated when staff and teachers do not give him the wait time that is written in his IEP.
 
🔑LJ doesn’t enjoy when people talk bout him right in front of him as if he wasn’t there. People will also touch his device without permission, which LJ says makes him feel powerless because he can’t say “no” when people don’t ask.
 
🔑A lot of times there’s focus on literacy, but not as much focus on the needs for students who can do more advanced math. LJ had a lot of words that he needed for his math classes that were not available on his device and that he had add himself. 
 
Links from this week
 
Equatio - Digital equation editor that can work with speech to text or text to speech. https://www.texthelp.com/products/equatio/ 
 
Blog post by LJ about his AAC journey: https://lessonsfromthebigtoe.com/2021/06/24/lj-seiffs-aac-journey/
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!

Kristina Edie, Erica Sauer, Joy Mockbee, & Bernadette Wiley: Exploring the Specific Language System First Approach (Part 2)

This week, we share Part 2 of Chris’s conversation with Kristina Edie (SLP), Erica Sauer (Director of Special Programs), Joy Mockbee (OT), and Bernadette Wiley (PT/AAC) with Hancock County Schools in West Virginia. They continue to talk with Chris about the Specific Language System First approach and how it might work for their district, including how to choose the “tier 1/2” device that you give every AAC user.
 
Before the interview, Rachel shares about working with a new client who has had some difficulty with implementation over the last 5 years with other therapists. Her client’s school-based SLP recently recommended that the AAC User should go to a paper based book to communicate. The SLP said Rachel’s client wasn’t using the device “functionally” because he sometimes hit different buttons and treated the device like a “toy”. When Rachel got a chance to work with the student, she was blown away by all of the ways that this AAC User can communicate, and Rachel was frustrated that he was being denied robust AAC when the problem is poor implementation.
 
Key Ideas This Week:
 
🔑 The Hancock team asks Chris about choosing an AAC device for the district that uses Symbol Stix, like TouchChat or Proloquo2Go, because they often use those symbols in class as part of Unique Learning Systems. Chris notes that, in his experience, if we are good at modeling and descriptive teaching, then we can teach any robust system to AAC Users, regardless of how familiar they already are with the pictures.
 
🔑 One benefit of learning how to model really well on one AAC system is you are able to learn your next AAC system faster, because you already understand the key functions of AAC software in general.
 
🔑 Chris shares that, with AAC, you need to hit the “sweet spot” that includes an appropriate AAC tool, training for the circle of support on modeling/descriptive teaching, and hands on coaching on how to model effectively.
 
Links from this Episode:
 
Continuum of Language Expression (http://bit.ly/colegooglesheets & http://bit.ly/lcpscolepiktochart) 
 
Chris and Rachel discuss the Continuum of Language Expression (COLE) during the banter of this episode of Talking with Tech: https://www.talkingwithtech.org/episodes/julie-freed

Kristina Edie, Erica Sauer, Joy Mockbee, & Bernadette Wiley: Exploring the Specific Language System First Approach (Part 1)

This week, we share Part 1 of Chris’s conversation with Kristina Edie (SLP), Erica Sauer (Director of Special Programs), Joy Mockbee (OT), and Bernadette Wiley (PT/AAC) with Hancock County Schools in West Virginia. They talk about the AAC journey their district has gone on that led them to asking Chris to help them understand the Specific Language System First approach and how it might work for them.
 
Before the interview, Chris and Rachel talk about an email that Rachel sent to her email list about using slang with AAC that was offensive to a reader for cultural reasons. Rachel shares about that learning moment, and how it has informed her approach to slang, including being more mindful about taking with families and peers about the slang she wants to add onto a device.
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 There is a rationale and reasoning behind the pictures on LAMP Words for Life, and often the picture relates to teaching the concept, like a picture of a dog for “come” or a bridge with a cloud over it for prepositions. It may not always make sense at first, but there is always a thought out reason for the picture, and at the end of the day the student will learn the motor plan regardless of the picture.
 
🔑 Chris has seen a trend of students wanting to move from LAMP Words for Life to TouchChat in secondary school because they want something that is more text based. Chris shares some have said more text based AAC looks "more mature." Chris points out that adults use images like emojis and gifs all the time, and there should be nothing inherently more “adult” about using text vs using images.
 
🔑 Slang isn’t as simple as the popular words or phrases that we hear being used on TikTok. These are words that have history and uses that are cultural, regional, and generational in nature. As therapists, we need to be seeking information by initiating conversations with families and peers about the kinds of slang we’re programming into devices.
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!

Bruce Alter: Pros and Cons of Allowing AI in Schools

In this episode of Talking with Tech, Chris interviews Bruce Alter, a pediatric Physical Therapist and AT Consultant with the Tigard-Tualatin School District in Oregon. Bruce has a long history working with technology, including as a user; he was an early adopter of assistive technology in school to support his challenges with dyslexia. Bruce and Chris’s discussion focuses on artificial intelligince (AI) like Open AI's Chat GPT, including some of the uses it can have in the schools and some applications for AAC users in general. 
 
Before the interview, Chris and Rachel get together with Rachel's twin Matt Madel to talk about Rachel and his connection as twins and some of the ways that he uses Chat GPT in his own work, including quickly creating code in Python. 
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 ChatGPT is a language model developed by OpenAI that is designed to generate human-like text responses to natural language inputs. It can do more than just answer informational questions - it can write unique code, create formulas for Excel, respond at a particular Lexile level or grade, and more!
 
🔑 Bruce emphasizes that ChatGPT does not answer questions the same way that a human being does. ChatGPT is known to have "hallucinations" that sound convincing but are factually incorrect. We should teach students that they need to fact check what ChatGPT says to ensure it is correct!
 
🔑 Should school districts block or ban something that will be available to society, like chat GPT, or do they have a duty to help students figure out how to help students use it? You have to balance students getting their own skills at writing while also teaching them how to utilize tools like GPT to improve their learning.
 
Links from this week’s episode:
 
Cult of Pedagogy Podcast: How to Use ChatGPT as an Example Machine https://www.cultofpedagogy.com/chatgpt-example-machine/
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!

Noah Callan: AAC User, Disability Advocate, and Technology Coordinator

This week, Rachel and Chris interview Noah Callan, a 25-year-old disability and inclusion advocate who is a full-time AAC user. Noah is also the AAC & Technology Coordinator at Kids+ in Australia. Noah shares about his AAC journey, including some of the changes he has made over the years, such as going from switch access scanning to using an eye gaze camera with Gridpad 12 . Noah also shares some challenging and rewarding experiences he recently had with able-bodied people, including a worker at a bank who refused to talk to him and assumed that he was not intelligent because he is nonspeaking.
 
Before the interview, Chris and Rachel reflect on how much gestalt language processing (GLP) was a topic of discussion at this year’s ATIA. They note that it continues to be important to ask the right questions and keep an open mind about something you are learning about, while also noting that we need to maintain appropriate skepticism. They also note that the strategy of adding a script to a device could be considered “key vocabulary”.
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑 If you are a family member, friend, or therapist of an AAC user, try and set a time with the AAC user to have a chat with the device each day. That way, the AAC user feels more comfortable starting their own conversations down the road.
 
🔑 Noah really likes his current AAC setup on a Gridpad 12 by SmartBox with an eye gaze camera. He likes the Gridpad because: it has a long battery life (10 hours with eye gaze), he likes that the design is not too big or small, and it has an option for a 2nd screen to display what he types. One good feature of the 2nd screen is, while Noah is writing his message, three dots display to help others wait while Noah composes his message.  
 
🔑 Noah says: “Don’t underestimate what an AAC user can do. Give them all the time to deliver their message, because, what is the rush? There is absolutely no rush. Sometimes, people assume that, because I have a physical disability and am nonverbal, I can’t do things like ordinary people do. Before you judge a disabled person, you might want to take the time to get to know them and see what they are able to do. You might be surprised and also find a new friend!”
 
Links this week:
 
Noah’s Linktree has links to the programs he is involved in and work he has done, including Kids+ and Get Skilled Access: https://linktr.ee/noahcallan
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
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Takeaways from ATIA 2023

This week on Talking with Tech, Chris and Rachel discuss some of their takeaways from the Assistive Technology Industry Association Conference 2023. For those not familiar, ATIA holds a conference in Florida each year that focuses on assistive technology. Chris has attended and presented at ATIA for years, and Rachel has presented each of the last two years. Chris and Rachel touch on many of the topics they talked about with AAC users, including compensation for AAC Ambassadors, the need for more AAC users in AAC companies, ways that artificial intelligence can impact AAC, and more!
 
Key ideas this week:
 
🔑  We wouldn’t have a women’s rights group run by men, but most, if not all, AAC companies do not have an AAC user in an executive-type position in the company. The position that AAC users often fill is an “Ambassador” at conferences, which often pays very little. Chris and Rachel wonder if we can’t do a better job of compensating AAC users equitably for their involvement.
 
🔑 An AAC user at ATIA brought up that there aren’t always voice options for men, women, teens, children, and people who speak different dialects (e.g. African-American). Chris will start weighting voice options more when considering which AAC app to recommend.
 
🔑  When we are sharing or presenting, it is important to attribute ideas and images to the person who created them. Attribution allows people to find out about other content creators within the community. If you aren't sure who created something you want to share or use, try to a bit of research into who created it.
 
Visit talkingwithtech.org to access previous episodes, resources, and CEU credits that you can earn for listening to TWT episodes!
 
Help us develop new content and keep the podcast going strong! Support our podcast at patreon.com/talkingwithtech!
 
Links from this Episode:
 
Futurepedia.io - Contains a large database of AI tools that is updated daily
 
SLPs as AAC Gatekeepers by Jordyn Zimmerman